How Leaders Can Stop Getting Left Behind by AI, with Martin Wheatley

Speaker 1 (00:03) Welcome to Building Your Leader Brand. Today on the show, Bob is speaking with Martin Wheatley. If you can master the fundamentals of delegation from a leadership perspective and structure that in a way that you can have that conversation with the AI models, then you will be light years ahead of the average person just using AI as essentially a chatbot hack to a Google search. The people who are using agents and building skills and everything in Claude at the minute to really help orchestrate their work, it's probably something like the top 1% of the entire planet. So we are very, very early in this. Speaker 2 (00:49) Hi there, and welcome back to Building Your Leader Brand. I'm Bob Gentle, and every week I'm joined by incredible people who share their secrets to building, marketing, and monetizing their expertise and the mindset you need for your business to grow and thrive. If you're new, Take a breath, sit down, concentrate for just a moment before we get into this relaxing odyssey that we're going to have today, and take a moment to subscribe or follow. These are really simple things to do that add an awful lot of delight to my day because I see my numbers go up. And numbers going up, if you ask any marketer, will tell you is the most delightful thing. And I'm sure you want me delighted. Again, if you have enjoyed this kind of thing in the past and you are focused on building a business around your personal brand, then you will love the Personal Brand Business Roadmap. All new, 100% updated for 2026. And if you're listening to this in 2027, all updated for 2027. Everything you need to start, scale, or fix your expert business. I need to give you the link. You can get it at amplifyme.agency/roadmap. Or just hit the link in the show notes. Speaker 2 (01:59) It's very obvious. So this week we're going to be focusing on the topic of the moment. We've had a couple of conversations about this recently, but today we're talking particularly about AI and how it impacts leaders and leadership. I think a lot of leaders give the impression that they know what they're doing, but honestly, the sentiment when you speak to them is, their experience is they're chasing the bus most of the time. In the 21st century, leaving AI to the kids is not going to cut it. And all the conversations about AI hitting headcounts and data centres does not serve our business. AI is all about adding value and amplifying the things that make you best. And to help me with this conversation today, I am delighted to be joined by my friend, Martin Wheatley. Martin, welcome. Speaker 1 (02:50) Hello, Bob. Thank you very much. Great to be here. Speaker 2 (02:53) Did you like my intro? I just winged it. I made it up on the fly. Speaker 1 (02:57) I did like it. That was very good. A true professional at work. Absolutely. Speaker 2 (03:01) Sometimes winging it works and sometimes it doesn't. And I think AI is one of these areas where it's lovely to be delighted and surprised, but delight and surprise are not a plan. And leaders and leadership, I guess there's a lot of inspiration there, But strategy and planning are really what the role is all about. For the listener who's meeting you for the first time, can you maybe just tell us a little bit about who you are, where you are, and what it is you actually do? Speaker 1 (03:30) Yes, as you said, my name's Martin Wheatley. I help senior leaders rethink how work gets done with AI so that they can multiply the effectiveness of themselves, the people, and the businesses that they work for. That can be on a one-to-one basis with leaders, helping teams upskill using AI, or helping them redesign parts of their organisation and team to make sure the work gets done in the most effective and beneficial way for everybody. My background is actually in financial services. I did all my CIMA qualifications back many years ago now, and it's always been in kind of heavily regulated client money environments and managing large teams at scale across the UK and offshore. So my background is more around finance, process improvement, managing at scale. And then at the end of 2022, or during 2022, just before ChatGPT came out, I was playing around with some AI tools and then obviously ChatGPT launched and then the future is now very, very uncertain in terms of how this is going to go. And I quickly saw that, you know, from a leader's perspective, a leadership role really needs to grab hold of providing the psychological safety for teams to try and improve how they work with AI. Speaker 1 (04:54) And that's essentially what I'm doing today. Speaker 2 (04:57) I think the psychological safety piece is really interesting because what's fascinating for me, and a little alarming, is as somebody whose business has been really supported with AI, and when I speak to a lot of business owners, they're generally quite excited because I look at it as an amplifier. If you're a creative person, you can be more creative. If you have ideas, you can execute on those ideas so much more quickly. Speaker 1 (05:28) Yeah. Speaker 2 (05:28) If you've got complex process in your business that's sucking attention and energy, you can automate an awful lot of that. So there's so much benefit. But in the media, it's actually surprising how much negativity there is. And I think if I were a senior leader in a large organisation, I'd be really worried about what my employees feel about AI. I think a lot of people feel threatened, and I think the psychological safety piece is actually a really interesting place to begin. Speaker 1 (06:00) Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, all the narrative that came out from the likes of Sam Altman, OpenAI, Dario Amodei, if that's how you pronounce his name, from Anthropic, was all the narrative at the beginning was it's going to replace white-collar jobs. There's not going to be any entry-level jobs. Everyone's going to be displaced. And anybody who's been in a leadership position, you see these headlines and you're like, wow, this is going to come and it's going to affect me. It's going to affect my team. But I think the role of the leader in that is to just more or less take a step back and just understand and learn to use the tools before they start to really plan through any large-scale change and transformation. I don't sign up to the fact that it's going to dramatically— you're not going to hit 30%, 40% unemployment or anything like that. I do genuinely think The tools are going to make a big difference, don't get me wrong. People's roles are going to change dramatically. And if you're an entry-level— sorry, if your role is just admin tasks, moving information around, copying and pasting from one spreadsheet to another, then absolutely your role is going to significantly change. Speaker 1 (07:20) But having this kind of technology on tap to help leverage what your people are actually good at to make them better. And like you said earlier, amplify what they can do or get rid of some time-consuming tasks is the best way to think of it. And creating that safety net within an organisation to say, we don't really know how we're going to use this technology yet. We've highlighted some areas that we want to look at. Let's all learn together and then let's grow through the process. I think, you know, with any large-scale change, I think that is possibly one of the better ways to do it rather than, like you said, be consumed by the negative narrative that's been coming out. Absolutely. Speaker 2 (08:09) I think what I've certainly seen in my business, which I think is a bit of a microcosm, is there's been a lot of elimination of just busywork, but The other side of that is there's been an absolute explosion of creative work. Speaker 1 (08:28) Yeah. Speaker 2 (08:28) That I've been doing things that I'd never expected to be doing. And if I look at the elimination of that busywork, that's fine. But actually, the explosion of the creative work has led to probably more meaningful opportunities for other people if I'm honest, than I'm eliminating. And I think that's something I don't think people are seeing yet. They're seeing the negative, but they're not seeing the ability to create what wasn't there before. And that creates completely new and completely different opportunities. Speaker 1 (09:04) It certainly does. And yeah, the media has all been around job layoffs. But if you look at the like of, I've forgotten the companies now, If you look at the like of IKEA and of Costco, they have been really the 2 largest organisations that I've seen so far come out and really champion the fact that we're using AI, we're changing how we operate, and we're consciously and actively not removing people as a result of this technology coming in. And it does come back down to your point in they've been able to spot what they could do with AI and move people into those roles that really, really support amplifying their new technology and new tasks, new services to customers that weren't there before. But coming back to a solo operator or even just a team leader in a team, yeah, the ability to let your creativity run wild and think, you know what, I wish I had a tool that could help me do X or help my team complete Y. I look back now, a lot of my past career was all around reconciliation of data. And whilst there's automation platforms out there, there is always an element of one Excel spreadsheet needs to match against another Excel spreadsheet. Speaker 1 (10:28) And I look back now and think, even just with Claude CoWork now that you've got, I could have automated made dashboards off the back of it, had root cause analysis of what was going wrong, all within an afternoon. And it's just opening that possibility for people to think differently, which I think is what excites me around AI, which is why I've kind of pivoted from my finance career more into this. Speaker 2 (10:56) So I just wanted to cheque Costco and IKEA, because you got me thinking. Mark Schaefer wrote a book called Belonging to the Brand, and he has always kind of got his finger on the pulse of what's ahead. It's really annoying, but he talks about how in the 21st century, we're really leaning or leading towards the belonging economy, that in a world where there's increasing virtualization, I think this was particularly coming out of the pandemic, where people were working from home, they were feeling less connected to their companies, they were starting to feel more and more commoditized. And AI, I think, just accelerates that experience of just being a line item on a spreadsheet for a lot of people in large organisations. That those organisations that can create a sense of belonging actually establish a competitive advantage because if you don't feel like a line item, if you feel like you're properly valued in an organisation, you'll do things you wouldn't do otherwise. And I wonder if what IKEA and Costco are experiencing is a burgeoning loyalty and enthusiasm from their teams. But additionally, I look out towards the customers. If people's cognitive capacity has been liberated from busywork, It's now made available for a level of customer service you couldn't experience in any other way. Speaker 2 (12:29) And I just thought that would be, I think, an important thing to highlight here because if you're a publicly traded company on the stock market, you're held accountable for profits and pretty much little else. IKEA being a privately held company, they can do what they like. They can be motivated by whatever they choose. I think Costco, are a publicly traded company, but they're really well known for taking a stand and looking at long-term profit rather than short-term wins. And they are very profitable. I just thought that was an interesting thing to look at. Speaker 1 (13:03) Yeah, no, it is. And I think it comes back to, if every company implemented AI tomorrow and maximised every single efficiency they could get out of it, and thought, right, well, now we've got too many people, let's get rid of 20%, 30%, 40% of the headcount, whatever. What are you going to get at the end of that? And it's going to be an average company because that's what AI is essentially doing. It's taking a mass of data and giving you the best plausible average answer from everything it could possibly look at. And if you have that in an organisation and you strip out the people who made it great, that sense of belonging from an internal perspective disappears. But also, I think the external perception of how that company culture operates will disappear as well. And really, how you operate internally will become your differentiating factor that will ultimately make you valuable in the future, I think, because everyone's got access to this technology. It's not like there's one leader above everything that Unless you're an AI frontier lab. And just rushing to be average seems really bizarre to me when you can use it for much better gain, like the companies we've just been talking about, and learn and develop together. Speaker 2 (14:35) As you were speaking there, I had this memory. It's something that's come up frequently from people who talk about leadership and how to generate or build great organisational cultures. And what often comes up is modern doctrine around leadership and culture comes from the command and control philosophies of the 1940s and '50s. Speaker 1 (15:05) Yeah. Speaker 2 (15:06) It's very masculine. And I think this is the side of things that AI is brilliant at. It's brilliant at systems. Where AI sucks at the moment is with anything leading towards feeling and emotion. And I know this when I've built a few tools to help people sort of fine-tune LinkedIn posts and things like this. And one of the things I've noticed is When I'm working with people directly, I'm really fine-tuning how is the person at the other end of this post feeling? Because for me, that's primary because there's a whole part of the human that probably takes our attention first, which is feeling-driven. The subconscious is a feeling thing. Speaker 1 (15:52) Yeah. Speaker 2 (15:52) It really struggles with that. AI finds it very, very difficult to assess and engineer emotion. So from a leadership perspective, if you're leaning into AI, you're really leaning into the past as far as leadership philosophy is concerned. And this kind of brings me to what I was going to talk about in a roundabout way, is AI is a tool, but it's not the craftsman. Speaker 1 (16:18) Yeah. Speaker 2 (16:19) And the job of the leader is to provide this balancing factor to the intelligence. It's not going to manage the nuanced feeling and subjective opinions and judgments of a great leader. But the problem they often have is they don't know how to wield the tool. And I think that's where we should go next in the conversation. How can average Joe leader who's maybe in his 40s, didn't grow up necessarily with social media, although that's not very many people these days, but I didn't grow up with social media. How is the average person who isn't a nerd in a cupboard, who's getting on every new thing, going to go from, I've heard I have got to do something with AI, but I've been dabbling with ChatGPT and Claude, to, I now feel I have an element of control and I can shape the conversation? Speaker 1 (17:13) I think there's a couple of things in there. Let's just take one step back slightly and just look at the role of the leader, in my opinion, is quite straightforward, really. Well, they've got to point whoever they are leading in a direction and set the future, make sure that people are all moving along that way throughout, cheque if there's any issues, if not, and repoint and readjust as they're going, and balance out the individual, the team, and the company altogether. So, For me, if someone was sat with me now and they were asking what was the first step I should take to using AI at work or AI in my role, the first thing I would say is ask AI the question. I know people give that as an answer a lot of the time, but ask AI the question, but base it on your role spec. So everyone will have, or the majority of people will have a a job spec, a job on a page, a role profile, whatever it is, put that into your large language model of choice and say, ask it a genuine question and just ask it, this is my role, this is what I'm really focused on at the minute. Speaker 1 (18:29) You know, you don't have to put confidential information in there, certainly not, be careful about that, but where could I start looking at using you to support me? That is the easiest first step, I would think, when it's specifically, it's a work focus. It's give it a bit of context, as in what your role is, what you're trying to achieve, and then start having that dialogue with it and just asking the question. That, I think, will give much more direction, much more ideas, or more ideas for them to then go down the rabbit hole of helping. helping them on a day-to-day basis. Yeah. Speaker 2 (19:07) I remember back in the 1980s, good grief, people would train on new software. They would get somebody in, they would teach them how to use it. And I think the more new software and the internet has just become ubiquitous, we've moved further and further away from actually learning properly how to use tools. I have Obsidian guilds in spreadsheets. I've sat in a class and been taught how to use Mac OS 7. Speaker 1 (19:38) Yeah. Speaker 2 (19:39) We just don't do that anymore. And I think there would be an awful lot of benefit to people having a little bit more structured indoctrination into things. And I don't think there was ever a tool where this was more important, and I don't think there was ever a role that this was more important for than leaders. But the problem is it moves so damn quickly. Speaker 1 (20:03) Yeah. Speaker 2 (20:03) And this is obviously almost a leading question. I think one of the things with AI that I've certainly benefited from is being around people who are in this every day and can give you really rapid orientation. So I guess where I'm going with this question, without thinking it through, Is how do you work with people to solve this problem directly? I don't think it is a training answer, but there has to be an answer. Speaker 1 (20:34) Yeah, I mean, training could be an option. It could be a structured training session that we decide to go down. That's probably more with a group scenario, I would say. So everyone's kind of learning at the same pace. If it was an individual leader coming You know, and having the conversation with me, it would be very much along the lines of, what are you trying to achieve in your role, in your life, whatever? Let's look at how we can use AI to help you with that so that actually the learning of AI is alongside something that they are actively trying to do, because that's the whole point of AI. It's meant to help you achieve a goal, an objective, or something like that. Coming back to your point, absolutely. You know, when a new piece of software landed on your machine in an office or at home or whatever, you had to spend the time out to learn how to use that piece of software. Or you had somebody from IT walking around guiding people through on support, helping you out. The big difference with this is, you know, it's not like somebody dropping a CRM software on your desk and saying, you know what, you'll figure it out, use it. Speaker 1 (21:44) Which has predefined, quite restrictive rules. What you can now do with AI and connect it up through all your tools and connectors, so it grabs information from your email, it grabs it from your Notion database or anything really. Now the connectors are more or less unlimited. You only get to that level of capability and confidence through taking small steps at a time and actually working through Something that you actually need to get done. I think that, that's, that's the fundamental piece. You need to understand how it can help me now to unlock in your own mind how it could help me in the future. And then you will go down the rabbit hole, like, you know, like, like you said, you have in terms of building tools and everything like that. You know, a year, 18 months ago, that probably wasn't even an option because it would've cost so much in development cost and time and everything. But certainly, yeah, we start at, what are you working on? Let's really look at how AI can help you with this, and let's start with a conversation. Then let's build it up to, well, what if we set it up as a repeatable task? Speaker 1 (22:53) What could help you free up more time? And then how do we connect up? And then we build and build and build. And that's probably the easiest way. The tools changing is a concern. I got asked this question the other week in terms of, well, if we're building everything for ChatGPT and ChatGPT suddenly at the end of September suddenly goes down or is suddenly out of service or goes bankrupt or anything like that, what's next? And there is a real risk with that from a business perspective. Certainly you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket. So I guess there's that thought process around, well, even if you're learning something on ChatGPT, 95% of the time you can drag and drop the same methodology, the same thought process over to Claude or over to Gemini or whatever, because it's ultimately helping your process. You're the director, it's your intellectual property, if you like, in your head of how to use the tools. And because they are getting standardised in terms of the connectors, In terms of the language behind them, I think whilst you shouldn't pin all your hopes on one, I think you can more or less adapt to any model really, I would say. Speaker 1 (24:14) And learning those fundamentals are ultimately gonna help whatever model you choose 10, 15 years in the future, I would say. The core principle of generative AI is that conversational piece with a computer, which you couldn't have 5 years ago, and it actually takes action on your behalf. I don't think that's going to go anywhere, go away. I think it's only going to get stronger. You could probably say that you're going to interact more with voice, voice to computer rather than typing. That's probably going to become more and more prolific. But, you know, learning the fundamentals, how to prompt it, how to structure it, how to do recurring tasks. I think it's quite a steady, it can be quite quick, but quite a steady linear kind of progression before you get the fundamentals and then you go out and then all of a sudden you're building dashboards and tools left, right, and centre. Speaker 2 (25:08) It's really interesting as you were speaking, I was thinking, I would say 90% of people still don't know how to run a Google search in a structured way. Most people simply go to a search engine and they type in what they're looking for. Not realising you actually have a lot of control as to how you fine-tune that search. Speaker 1 (25:25) Yeah. Speaker 2 (25:25) And we're expecting people to know how to use AI. It doesn't really compute. What's fascinating here, and I think with AI, there are constants. There are things that will change all the time, but a basic understanding of what it's capable of, what does the geography look like in terms of, so you mentioned, for example, connectors. A lot of people probably have no idea that you can connect your AI to a million different things. A lot of people are probably still thinking, oh, AI, does it still, does it talk to the internet? It does so much more than that. Speaker 1 (26:00) Yeah. Speaker 2 (26:01) That if you are looking at a career as a leader in the 21st century, getting to grips with this is your job. You don't necessarily have to know how to do everything the same as you don't know how, you don't need to know how to run the the IT systems in your office, but you do need to know how to judge competence, and you do need to know what that business function looks like, and how to hire for it, and how to supervise it. That is on you. Speaker 1 (26:31) Yeah. I mean, ultimately, the way I look at it is everybody is going to be managing agents in the future. I mean, even in manual trades, you know, you can see how this is quickly gonna go there, especially with the likes of all the robotics work that's going on. It's not there yet. I think we're quite a few years off before you've got anyone, a robot turning up to do your plumbing. But everybody's gonna be managing agents, which fundamentally changes how that person, how that subject matter expert interacts with with things. Normally, they're the person doing the role. Now everybody is a manager. And what do managers and leaders have to be really good at? And that's delegating. And it's picking the right person for the job, it's setting out the right expectations of what needs to be done, it's checking in to make sure that the work is being done, and then it's correcting it if it isn't. And if you can master the fundamentals of delegation, from a leadership perspective and structure that in a way that you can have that conversation with the AI models, then you will be light years ahead of the average person just using AI as essentially a chatbot and a hack to a Google search. Speaker 1 (27:55) You've got to remember, we are like the people who are using agents and building skills and everything in Claude at the minute to really help orchestrate their work, it's probably something like the top 1% of the entire planet. So we are very, very early in this. The technology, the terminology, absolutely can be quite complicated. But from a fundamental leadership point of view, it is all around setting up the right conditions, as you were saying, understanding the key terms, the key connectivities, how to use that tool, And which tool to use, and then refining safely as you go. Speaker 2 (28:39) So I was thinking it would be really nice to play use case tennis, but then I saw the clock and I thought, that's unwise. As I'm thinking, I would like to have a bit of a roundtable conversation about how very specifically, leaders can use AI in some very practical ways. And I think what I'm going to have to do is have you and a couple of other people on, and we're just going to play as a group, because these are all the ways that we've seen people use AI, because I think there's an imagination gap, and we're not going to fix this just now. Speaker 1 (29:13) No. Speaker 2 (29:14) So if you're listening just now thinking I was about to get into some really cool stuff, you were right, but I don't have the time, so you'll have to come back another time. You've got a document on your website called the Multiply Method Roadmap. Can you tell me about that? It's really good. Speaker 1 (29:32) Yeah. So the key principle to this is when I start looking at a business that I'm going to be working with or an individual, I try and essentially place them on a 4-box grid. And I've just used mathematical kind of terminology for it. So, and it's basically around how or where AI is currently being used to then understand how to help them moving forward. And if you think of division is where I would say, you know, AI has been thrown into a business and the sole purpose of it is to just remove costs, remove heads, that kind of area, which obviously causes ripples through the organisation. There's distrust and that kind of negative connotations. Subtraction is where people have been given tools, they might be using it, so their job has got easier, but now there's a question of, what do I do with the capacity that I've got? Is something going to happen? Are they going to get rid of my role because I'm now completing more work faster? Addition is where they've just been given tools, but no real explanation of how to use them, so they've now just got something else to worry about. Speaker 1 (30:44) Without any knowledge of it. And then multiplication is the nirvana where, you know, people are trained, you're using it successfully, and, you know, the effectiveness of the people in the team are 10x to 100x, whatever. And the Multiply Method is really kind of taking it from that kind of start point and plotting a route through essentially to get you to the multiply stage. And we do that in a number of ways. I've called the actual roadmap that you will see on the document on my website, it's called PRIME. And it starts with pinpoint, so it identifies where AI could be used and what it could be used for. Then it goes to R, which is for ready, which is getting your team ready, training people, building that safe environment, getting the guardrails in. I is integrate, when that's when you start doing your pilots and your workflow redesign, really getting into people using it day to day and starting small. M is then when you get to multiply, and it's how do you scale your pilots out? How do you use your super users from your pilots to then help other teams without it becoming a top-down threat, essentially? Speaker 1 (31:59) How do you use reusable playbooks and templates? And then E is for evolve, which is then, again, how do you take your next step? Once you've got through your pilots, how do you make sure that organizationally you've got the right scalable reporting around it, you're dealing with compliance, you know, you've got that whole mechanism to make it really scalable across an organisation, really? So that's why it's called Multiply. It's a play on financial and mathematics, but it's essentially a guided roadmap to to say, you start from nothing and you end up with something that you can rinse and repeat over and over again and continue scaling, regardless of the technology, really. By the time you're at the end, the technology is second nature. Speaker 2 (32:45) It really does come across as a fairly comprehensive guide without being overwhelming to closing that imagination gap that we described, that if you don't know what the landscape looks like, you don't know how to move effectively through it. This kind of gives you the overview. You won't know the landscape in detail, but you will know the general topography and where to focus. It's really, really well put together and well structured. Speaker 1 (33:11) Thank you. Speaker 2 (33:12) So I need to get into the 3 things. You thankfully are prepared. Occasionally people are not. So we're just going to jump straight into it. Martin Wheatley amplifier number 1. Speaker 1 (33:23) Amplifier number 1 is a book and it's called Empire of AI by Karen Hao. And this book is all around essentially the rise of OpenAI and how it was meant to be a nonprofit, firing and then reinstatement of Sam Altman, all that kind of politics, Elon Musk's interventions and all that stuff. But it gives quite a fascinating understanding to how these models and how these business were built, the way that the models were trained and how they used people across Venezuela and the Philippines to say whether a model's answer is good or bad, and some of the psychological effects that it's had on those people, because some of them were presented with some quite distressing elements. I remember hearing about that in the news. Speaker 2 (34:21) I'd forgotten. Speaker 1 (34:22) Yeah, it's really quite eye-opening, and it goes on about some of the climate impacts as well. So, you know, it's not a doom and gloom book, it's not meant to be. I think it's just meant to be one of these books that kind of, from a leader's perspective especially, sheds a light on actually, yeah, the technology is fantastic, it's all shiny and new, but let's just understand what actually went into it. So it's a really good book for that. Speaker 2 (34:46) Amplifier number 2. Speaker 1 (34:48) Amplifier number 2 is a tried and tested mindset, the whole Carol Dweck growth mindset. And I think that kind of underpins everything we've kind of talked about today. Having that growth mindset, understanding that you can adapt and can change to this technology relatively quickly, pushing out of your comfort zone, admitting now that you don't know what the answer is, I think is going to be the biggest thing because People are going from being experts in a field to having to use this technology, and that can be quite intimidating. So I guess leaning into that, and I was talking to someone the other day that in their company, there were a couple of people who were really big AI detractors, absolutely not. And they've kind of embraced this and now are the actual champions for it in the business and are really flying with it. So That's the second one. Speaker 2 (35:39) It's really interesting. I think there's a parallel with a lot of the stuff that I talk about around personal brand and visibility. I think a lot of people feel like they're too well-established or authoritative. They shouldn't need it. It's ego and vanity at the end of the day. They don't want to be seen to be the new guy and not thriving in something and not really being across it. It was from the very, very human right across to the very technical. Fascinating. Speaker 1 (36:06) Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Speaker 2 (36:08) Amplifier number 3. Speaker 1 (36:10) Amplifier number 3 is actually a tool that I use every day, and it comes back to something I said earlier on, and it's talking to your computer. So it's a tool called WhisperFlow. There are other variants out there of the same thing, but I find WhisperFlow really quick and really quick to use. And you essentially talk to your computer. And it will, it's a talk-to-text engine essentially. But nowadays when I'm prompting a tool or a task in Claude or ChatGPT, I will just press the button, ramble at it in some kind of structure, give it as much context, download my thoughts, and then it takes all that information and then off it goes. And I think it's just, it unlocks, when you're trying to type something down, Your brain's automatically filtering what exactly it is you're trying to say. Whereas if you talk into something just off the cuff, you can normally get your ideas out in a better way that an AI model can just distil from what you're saying. So that has been a big game changer for me in terms of productivity. Speaker 2 (37:20) I absolutely echo that. I think I never would've imagined myself as someone who talked to their computer. Speaker 1 (37:25) No. Speaker 2 (37:25) But it's just so quick. I will offer an alternative to WhisperFlow because Bob Gentle doesn't like monthly fees. It's a tool called VoiceInk. It's very slightly nerdier than WhisperFlow, but absolutely no monthly fees, which I love. Speaker 1 (37:42) Yeah. Speaker 2 (37:43) And a nice independent developer, not a big company with lots of money. So do feel free to support that. Speaker 1 (37:50) Yes. Speaker 2 (37:51) So if people are sitting at home thinking, I need a bit of Martin Wheatley in my life, I know you have a podcast, the Frontier Leaders Show. Speaker 1 (37:59) Yep. Speaker 2 (38:00) But where else can people get in touch with you? Speaker 1 (38:03) So yeah, we've got the podcast, Frontier Leaders Show. I am most active on LinkedIn. Martin J. Wheatley is my handle on LinkedIn. You can find me there. Speaker 2 (38:14) I do an article normally every week, every other week, I'll just say as well, Martin is disproportionately amusing on LinkedIn. It doesn't happen all that often. You're in for a treat. Sorry, I interrupted. Speaker 1 (38:26) Absolutely. I do try, certainly with the images on the articles, I do try and make it interesting. But yeah, definitely on LinkedIn and the website is theaileaderlab.com. The roadmap is on there. There's a few tools and tactics and You can find me on there as well, but they're the main 3. Speaker 2 (38:46) Hopefully people listening will be beating a path to your door. Certainly it's time well spent. If you have got this far in the show, thank you so much for spending time with us. I really do appreciate that. If you have got this far, as well as the Multiply Method roadmap, you can also get 2 for 1, the Personal Brand Business Roadmap. I think it's about 60 pages of everything you need to start, scale, or fix your expert business, visit amplifyme.agency/roadmap, and I will put links in the show notes to the Multiply Method Roadmap. Wherever you're listening to this, just look around, you'll find it easily. If you have a moment before you get on with whatever's next, if you could leave a 5-star review wherever you listen to podcasts, that would make my day. Again, thanks for listening at home. And Martin, thank you for your time. You have been awesome. Speaker 1 (39:39) Thank you very much, Bob. Speak soon.